The Digger Archives Guestbook 2002

These are the Guestbook Entries from 2002. Please visit the current Guestbook if you would like to leave your own comments. We also have a Discussion Forum where there are threaded topics.

The most recent entries are at the top of this listing.

NOTE: this file contains the entries from November, 2002. The regular Guestbook contains entries later in 2002.

Name: shoms maga
E-mail Address: shomsmaga@mugun.com
Date: 30 Nov 2002

Comments

This is a nice site

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address: samileen@mcn.org
Date: 30 Nov 2002

Comments

Ohio Girl~

I have found some cleanses for Hep C that work. HIV, AIDS and cancer are also addressed and begin with these cleanses. I am one of the legions that have been battling this since my own needle use. I now longer feel that bone deep tiredness and have turned my health around. My daughter Ariel, was born with it and these cleanses have helped but not brought about the dramatic changes it has in me. But there is one doctor that feels she may be dealing with something more than Hep C and we will see about that soon. For anyone that knows anyone else that has it, or is sick with just about ANYTHING or in pain, these cleanses will blow your mind at the changes they make. I will give a brief here and the site to go to for more detailed info. Maybe this will help you or someone you care about. You are welcome to email me with any questions.

To cut to the chase, the basic cleanse starts with a worn and parasite cleanse. That alone will make a noticed change in just about anyones health and is rediclously easy to do. 3 inexpensive herbs are used. There is also a thing called a Zapper, that is more expensive and a necessary piece of equipment. But in Dr Clarks books she diagrams and gives instructions how to make one cheaply..I have both. Go to her search to understand what it does.

Next is a kidney cleanse and it can be done at the same time as the worm and parasite cleanse. This is also herbs and I find it a pain in the butt simply because it takes much longer to do. I have never finished the whole round, but know I need to. With that said, I don't feel it's crucial to finish it to get on with the liver cleanse. But that's my opinion.

The liver cleanse SUCKS. But it only takes overnite to do and in 24 hrs you will feel like a new person! This is no exageration. But it must be done 6 or more times. You will know when you have done enough for what stops coming out of you. I found I had to do it every 10 days until I stopped having energy drops. It is ESSENTIAL to do the worm and parasite cleanse before you do this or you will get sick as a dog! Take my word on this.

The next biggie is your teeth, and needs to be addressed ASAP. I can not emphasize this one enough. I could not stabalize my health until I dealt with this. The amalgam..the silver in your teeth, is poisoning your liver! NO ONE should have silver in their mouth! This was the hardest and most expensive things for me to deal with. The info she has is shocking and I have found she is not the only one that knows and agrees on this. You need plastic or ceramic fillings. No gold either. She doesn't even like the plastic or ceramic. Everything they use, leaks into your system. But silver is the worst and is not just silver. You've got mercury in your mouth! Think about it. There are many dentists that will say your crazy..find one that doesn't. Cause they're WRONG. If you need someone elses word on this I will hunt down another site for you from the head of toxicology in Florida.

Dr Clark has written 4 books. I have 3 of them just to use as reference for friends with HIV (she says can be cured in 6 days!), Aids and cancer. For myself and my family I use her book, Cure For All Diseases, as a reference book. In these books she lists all the toxic stuff we are using daily in our lives. The list is long and is a bummer and a hassle. I am still cutting my way through it.

There are lots of people and AMA that says she is a quack. They are wrong. I and my family and friends that have followed her instructions, and can varify that allergies and many other things you would never imagine this would change totally, does.

PS She does not directly address Hep C. She has not gotten enough varificaton on it yet. I met her by a stroke of luck, and found there are not enough people that I have been able to give her hard decisive data yet. But as far as I'm concerned, I don't need anyone to tell me I'm alive because of her. Here is the site.

http://www.drclark.net/

Name: Ohio girl
E-mail Address:
Date: 30 Nov 2002

Comments

The turkeys were safe from me this year, no appetite from hepatitis C medicine. I've had vegan Thanksgiving dinners as good as turkey but not even that this time around. Most food is safe from me at the moment!! Not much happened for Thanksgiving, but I'm thankful that our family will be able to congregate by Christmas. I've never been much of an activist, a few weeks at Morningstar way back when, were a beautiful vacation from my then-life of drugs. Morningstar didn't change my behavior at the time, but it did change my lifelong attitudes and feelings and it has always stayed with me. I think the politics of the U.S. are about as gross as it gets (I HOPE!) at the moment, but the country has overcome such policies and tactics before. The voting process seems stalled-out to me, please tell me I'm wrong. I think how we live (at least in my case) is the only way to positively affect the world, maybe I can make the biggest difference a little at a time, one person or one animal or one day at a time if I'm thoughtful. Happy Holidays to one and all. Steve I don't know you but it seems way too quiet and silent here in Ohio.......Peace

Name: Tomas
E-mail Address: tomas@laurelrose.com
Date: 29 Nov 2002

Comments

Perhaps it is the environment that I am in that makes me comfortable with life. I do not look for the violence but it comes close to home when I read or see the news. The window that I see from is peaceful. Perhaps it is all the trees that filter out all the violence that surrounds me. Or it could be my brain that sees the rainbow, I am not sure? This has been going on for a long time. I am going on a trip. I will be back in a couple of weeks. Take care of your self. Tomas

Name: Eileen...
E-mail Address: the unenlightened
Date: 28 Nov 2002

Comments

Tomas~

Yes we are here and sometimes thankful. Life lessons creat common sense..it is not a given, and is rarely the only place we make our decisions from. We can move about our world if we have money. We speak and write freely until we say something that arouses too much attention that doesn't go along with the status quo. Free, raises the question..from what? We can not bury the wheel but we can modify it. The gov't revolves as it is, because we have not figured out how to change it. Today I enjoy a peaceful meal and am grateful while I think of those that don't have that luxury. They could be next door. Killing after the dishes will not happen at my house but will happen somewhere else a hundred times over before the day is through.

This is not a peaceful country or a peaceful world. People are not peaceful creatures. Peacefulness is something we strive for. But to be peaceful all the time means one is numb, or not paying attention..or maybe the Dalai Lama or Amachi. I certainly haven't gotten there..and I do think they suffer too.

I appreciate the gentleness of intention that you bring. I choose awarenss. It does not always mean I feel peaceful. There is much to suffer and there is much to enjoy. To get attached to one or the other is like trying to stop breathing.

Name: Tomas
E-mail Address: tomas@laurelrose.com
Date: 28 Nov 2002

Comments

We are here. We are sometimes thankful. Government revolves around our being here. Common sense creates what ever we choose. We can move about our world. Are we lucky enough to live in a world that lets us write freely here on the net or are we in some place on this planet that needs some improvement? Are these messages seen throughout the world? If they are then they know what they need to perfect their realm. Who is the freeist person on this planet? Can you tell me? Are you the freest? When we spread the wealth throughout the world does it become better? Does the field become level through this communication? Can we bury the wheel after it has been invented? Today we are thankful and we celebrate that with a peaceful meal. Did someone ask us to kill our neighbor after the dishes were dried? If we are peaceful at dinner then we can be peaceful all the time. It is our choice. It is mine.

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address: I'm sort of back
Date: 28 Nov 2002

Comments

I am having my dream Thanksgiving. Well, one I've wished for many times. Alone. It's not the way I want every Thanksgiving, cause I often enjoy it with all the preparation and mainly when I have my family and friends around me. But this one this yr suits me just right. My girls are with their friends and loved ones. So everyone has what they need and that feels good. I hope you all are having the Thanksgiving you want too.

I am beginning to loosen my mind up about this potiential move. And RNA is absolutely correct. Today ideas, dreams of the future, and the home I want next are starting to bubble up. I used to enjoy this. I know it will come. I am not under any immediate pressure but what I create myself. So am trying to ease up on that. It's a beautiful sunny day here on the coast..that helps. I'm still rummaging around for the gypsy in me and I know she's gonna be happy when I find my gypsy skirt again.

Tonto, I see you have given this a lot of thought. Some of what you suggest is very much the way I hear the Japanese run their big companies. I think we have something to learn from them in that regard. I also think those of us who spent time on communes or worked as activists have a pretty good idea of what the kinds of problems come up in trying to create a level playing field. From a simple point of view, small groups work more fluidly than larger. There is something in the back of my head about about the size if the gov't we have created..that we have somehow agreed to that has gotten out of hand. Maybe it was always out of hand. I do know it was created to protect those with land and money from they get go. With that kind of foundation, we started off unequal..and it was with intention. I think states should run themselves with their own laws and own cental gov't. This country has gotten to big to be run by one gov't. I think until that happens we won't see the changes we need. How we get there is beyond my imagining.

Name: Eric
E-mail Address:
Date: 28 Nov 2002

Comments

Thanksgiving is a good day to become vegetarian. Here's to all the vegans and other animal lovers in the world.

Name: TONTO
E-mail Address: wasp132@yahoo.co.uk
Date: 28 Nov 2002

Comments

ON ALL of our demonstrations we chant "Another world is possible". But what does this mean? On one of the anti-capitalist marches in London last year several people arrived with a big home-made banner that said "Overthrow capitalism and replace it with something nicer".

That's where millions of people in the worldwide movement are at now. We know what we're against, but there is endless debate and searching for what we are for. Here is one view, my view, of what another world would look like.

First, it would be absolutely nothing like the old dictatorships in the Soviet Union, China, Vietnam and Cuba. Our alternative is not a police state. But nor would it be like the parliamentary democracies in Italy, Britain or India. It's not that I'm against voting. The problem is partly that we only get to vote every five years and, whoever we elect, they never do what they promised.

But the real problem is that, although we have democratic parliaments, work is a dictatorship. From the moment you clock on to the moment you leave, you do what you're told. "If you don't like it, TONTO," they say, "you can go."

We spend the majority of our lives getting ready for work, going there, working, coming home, and then slumping to recover ourselves. So the dictatorship at work means our fundamental experience of life is not democratic. And the corporations and the employers run the political world anyway.

It starts long before we're old enough to work. School and university are dictatorships too, preparing and disciplining us for the world of work. So we would start another world with democracy at work. We would elect the managers from among ourselves, replacing them whenever we want.

Ordinary people can do those jobs. We already make the trains run on time, run the hospital wards, design buildings. People would grow into those jobs, and we'd need fewer managers if people were doing their jobs voluntarily. But that alone would not be enough. There is still the world market.

I worked for ten years for a feminist abortion clinic. We were a co-operative. We shared jobs. We had equal pay. But we were competing with other clinics in a market, and in the end we had a management that sacked all the union members. The same thing has happened to whole countries that try to have democracy in the middle of a world market.

So the workers in each company or government department would have to take over the whole place. Then we could elect representatives from each workplace. These would be people like ourselves, cleaners and carpenters and teachers, not lawyers and politicians parachuted in from outside. They would work alongside us, be people we could know and weigh up.

The representatives from every workplace could meet together in each city every week to make decisions about what to do with the economy. In most towns the only place big enough to hold them would be the football stadium. Then they could elect reps to a national meeting, and that national meeting could elect reps to international meetings.

At the base of this would be meetings at each workplace every week. Every week we could replace our reps if we wanted, at every level. Of course some people don't work. Retired people could elect reps at clubs, and so could children at school.

All these meetings would make decisions about what to do with our work. In capitalism every company must compete, and profit is the criterion. In our new world we could make decisions based on what we need, not on profit. There would be endless debates in those meetings.

Some people will want to put a lot more work into looking after old people. Others will want a lot more musicians and artists. Some will want to work only four days, and abolish Monday straight off. Others will want to keep working hard to bring the poor countries of the world up to the level of the rich. Some will want to put all our energy into the environment.

There will be endless debates, and we will settle them by consensus when we can, by votes when we must. There will be compromises, mixes and matches. Some of our decisions will turn out wrong. The key is that they will be really democratic. One of the glories of our movement, and one of the surprising things, is that we all seem to be agreed on the central importance of democracy.

I don't know exactly what those meetings will decide. I think we'll want equality, with everyone earning the same. I think we'll want to share out jobs, so everyone spends part of every week or every year doing the really good jobs, and everyone takes a turn at the boring, hard, difficult jobs.

I'VE LIVED and worked in six countries on four continents. From talking to working people in all those countries, I'm absolutely sure a central thing they will want is freedom from fear.

We spend our whole lives ruled by fear now-fear of being humiliated by the teacher, fear of looking stupid, lying awake at night worrying about money, fear of the gas bill, fear of not being able to get your ageing father into a decent hospital, fear of losing your job and having to come home and tell your husband or wife and your children that you can't bring home any money, and being ashamed.

Losing your job may happen to you only once or twice in your life, but the fear of it is with you every day. In another world we would make sure that those fears were gone, that everyone lives in security.

It wouldn't be a perfect world. People would still die, or feel unloved. There would still be problems. But it would be a far, far better world. And in time we would create new people. Two things will help here. First, the people we are now could not create this new world. In fighting for it, and in winning it, we would become quite different people-not just us here in this room, but the majority of people in the world.

Think how much you have changed just by being in Florence, just by this one experience of the European Social Forum, the confidence and hope you have. Then think of that multiplied a thousand times or more in far bigger struggles, and you have some idea how we would change.

But also we would create a new generation, raised in a new world. We have all grown up under capitalism. We carry the scars of much suffering, of grief, of being made to feel small. I smoke. I'm overweight. But each of us carries that suffering in our bodies, in the way we stand and walk.

Look at any baby, at their great eyes drinking in the world in wonder and excitement. Not any baby-not the ones who do not have enough to eat. But the others. And then look at the adults. We would create a world where that wonder could last into adulthood. And those people, raised in a new way, could go on to create yet another world.

I don't know if we'll do this in families or not. It may turn out everybody wants a standard family with 2.4 children and a white picket fence. Maybe half the population will turn out to be lesbian or gay. Maybe all the lesbians and gays will want the 2.4 children and the picket fence. I don't know. But I do know we will be able to make these decisions democratically, with the right to choose what we really want.

It won't be easy to make this new world. We are now at the beginning of the anti-capitalist movement. Before us is a long hard road, with many ups and downs. We will win victories we cannot now imagine, and live through shattering defeats. In the process, we will grow in numbers, and all of us will change profoundly.

No one can say we are bound to win a new world. Our slogan is "Another world is possible", not that it is certain. But I do know this. I'm 54 years old, and have been a revolutionary all my adult life. Until a year ago I didn't think I'd see another world in my lifetime. Ever since the great demonstration in Genoa last year I have known that it is now possible."

Name: Mark
E-mail Address:
Date: 28 Nov 2002

Comments

Happy T Day to all.

Name: Joe
E-mail Address: Hey Joe
Date: 28 Nov 2002

Comments

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well. Along with everyone else.

Name: Hammond
E-mail Address:
Date: 28 Nov 2002

Comments

Happy Thanksgiving to all - Hammond

Name: RNA
E-mail Address:
Date: 28 Nov 2002

Comments

Eileen, Tim used to say you first have to imagine it in order to create it. I hope your new home is even better than your current one. Your move could be a blessing in disguise. Sending best wishes, R

Name: RNA
E-mail Address: loose lave
Date: 28 Nov 2002

Comments

"Bowling for Columbine" has broken the all-time box office record for a documentary in America. It has ignited a national discussion about guns, violence, the NRA, racism, why the Canadians don't lock their doors, and the insane preparation for an expanded war in Iraq. The film continues to set box office records in the UK, France and elsewhere. And, next week, "Stupid White Men" begins its 10th month on the best-seller list. Have a happy Thanksgiving.

Tim Leary used to say, "Intelligence is the ultimate aphrodesiac." that was quite a bumper sticker.

Name: IMAM
E-mail Address:
Date: 27 Nov 2002

Comments

Yes Mark - The moron has indeed placed the bad Doctor in charge of the 9/11 investigation instead of placing him before the International Court. - And Yes - Big Brother has been peeping for many years - but not with a virtual microscope and in such blatant abuse of our rights of privacy. We are all terrorists in the Republican eye - IAMIMAM - Suspect

Name: Mark
E-mail Address:
Date: 27 Nov 2002

Comments

"Henry the K" is back in the saddle. Maybe there is something like a LSD flashback. Holy shit, batman.

Travis,

A weekly aquaintance of mine described the US as moving through it's Post-Imperialist phase on it's way to a governmental collapse not unlike the Soviet Union. This collapse he predicted will be due to the government's inability to support a monstrous military commitment. Got a comment on that?

Name: Tomas
E-mail Address: tomas@laurelrose.com
Date: 27 Nov 2002

Comments

Big Brother has followed me for over thirty years. When I want to tell him somethings I just tell him. Like now. I can say something and he reads what I write and "presto" Big Brother knows what I feel about changing the heart of America. We can use Big Brother if he is listening. The worst Big Brother can do is destroy my family and I. He cannot destroy the freedom that is in the heart.

Name: Rena
E-mail Address: ocean swirling
Date: 27 Nov 2002

Comments

"The People's History of the United States" is the title of Howard Zinn's book. It's Incredible. He has stuff on all the presidents, including good ol Jimmy Carter. Zinn is well documented. I enjoyed reading the chapters in random order. Raad about oppressed indentured servants then skip to Abraham Lincoln who was no champion of the slaves.... "If I could maintain the Union without freeing the slaves I would gladly do so," is one LIncoln quote that stands out. The chapter on the Vietnam War had me in tears. Those were my friends and classmates who were dying for what??!! I remember the terror of my friends and brother that they would be drafted and sent to Nam. the rich, of course, could stay out of the army by extending their college education.

Mother Jones has an article at http://www.motherjones.com "No Child Left UnRecruited." Part of the 740 page education bill, the "No Child Left Behind" bullshit bill, includes provisions that any school that wants federal funding MUST give the federal government total access to the student directory for recruitment. A few schools are testing this policy. Another ill effect of this bill, aside from giving our children to the draft board, is that all the myriad of tests that the students must pass force teachers to teach for the test. Nowadays, good teachers teach their students how to think, how to research, how to be critical. But, those that must learn a list of facts for these tests are missing out on interactive learning, round table discussions, and other areas of learning. Big Brother is Watching YOU. 1984 by George Orwell rings true, chilingly true. Back to the no child left behind bill... schools that don't have a high enough pass rate among their students receive less funding so the marathon is on to teach for the test.

Home schooling is scuch a luxery. I am blessed to have had the time to homeschool my kids. However, they need a lot more info than I can offer which is why my 16 year old is now at Maui's only prep school. I sure wish there was an alternative here. At least most of her classes are interesting. ...She's reading Carlos Castenada in a Philosophy class. .... and, Zinn for US History. Chemistry is Environmental Chemistry. She's digging it.

As the world gets crazier my daughter has begun entertaining thoughts of going to college in Hawaiim, her native state. I just want her to be happy. I sure love the program of interactive education at Evergreen in Olympia but the weather is a big obstacle for us tropical flower hawaiians.

Sending everyone love and blessings on gratitude day. Hope you all have lots to be grateful for.

Name: Joe
E-mail Address: Hey Joe
Date: 26 Nov 2002

Comments

I hate moving myself. Good luck Eileen. It was nice talking to you on here. This too will pass.

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address:
Date: 26 Nov 2002

Comments

Well friends I am going to be out of the loop here for awhile. I just found out yesterday, I'm going to have to make some radical changes in my life sometime this yr that has blown my mind..moving. When I thought my gypsy life was really over. This has come as a unexpected shock to me and I am not feeling up to making sense or thinking about anyone else's mind right now. Thanks for the good company here.

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address:
Date: 26 Nov 2002

Comments

The only use I can see of this recording of every breath we take, is if there is someone or some group in particular that is being tracked. That's certainly scary enough. But imagine anyone or anything tracking our lengthy and boreing conversations and daily doings to find a grain of anything worthwhile. It's the IDEA of all this that is disturbing in the extreme. But to get anything of value, so much would have to be processed..and we know how faulty the eletronics world can get. I sense something else is afoot here. Like maybe diverting our attention to worry about this. Just a thought.

Name: IMAM
E-mail Address:
Date: 26 Nov 2002

Comments

I hate to bring up "Big Brother" again but in the blink of an eye (yesterday) our "Freedom of Speech (privacy)" has been eliminated. The Office of Information Awareness ala John Poindexter (of Iran/Contra) is just getting itself up and running. The Mobius chip will undoubtedly be making a reappearance on the set - this is the cute little Big Brotther software (designed earlier this year) that allows 'the watchers' - to read what you type on your keyboards as you type it. Perhaps the typewriter isn't as out of date as it seemed? Suggest that everyone use terrorist verbage without threatening context as a footer to all e-mails so that the OIA databanks become overwhelmed. Vinceremos! IAMIMAM

Name: Dr Sponge
E-mail Address:
Date: 26 Nov 2002

Comments

recieved an email from steve all is ok. his computer was down for a while nothing more sinister than that

Name: me again
E-mail Address:
Date: 26 Nov 2002

Comments

So busy goofing forgot to thank you Nicole. Thanks for checking in. Have a good one yourself. I can just imagine you in the cold morning. This is when I would be ready to head for the country! Snow in a city..yuk! Sunny and damp (as usual) here on the northern coast. Everythings turning green from the storms that came in last wk. Remember the first time I came to CA in the middle of winter in CO, having gone through a blinding blizzard over Donner Pass then coming over the hills the change of air and the startling green of everything. I do wait for this change of season to bring the beauty back. Thinking about making a fire and get my lazy ass in gear.

Enjoy the season all.

Name: Hammond
E-mail Address:
Date: 26 Nov 2002

Comments

Indeed - Need we say more..... onwords! Out Moloch Out!

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address: ppsssst
Date: 26 Nov 2002

Comments

No no, it's like this...the bird on the line is dropping poop on hats below, singing songs with friends in the morning snow. roger and out.. or is it hugh and lewy?

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address: eh hem
Date: 26 Nov 2002

Comments

The fox is in his hole watching the hounds run by. All is well.

Name: Nicole
E-mail Address:
Date: 26 Nov 2002

Comments

...all's well on the western, uh, west st front...

Name: nik
E-mail Address:
Date: 26 Nov 2002

Comments

...that is if any of you HEAR...

Name: Nicole
E-mail Address:
Date: 26 Nov 2002

Comments

hi all...I went to west 4th last evening...I spoke to a guy in the office who said he hadn't seen Steve that day...so I filled him in a bit as to why I was worried and he told me their computer has been down for the last 3 days...then he said he realized Steve really hadn't been around for about as long...I left a note and the guy said he'd put it under the door...I suggested he might consider going in if there's no response or if he still doesn't show up...He hadn't known anything was up so that makes me feel better...I'll go over again before I go home this evening as well...let me know too, if any of you here separately...okay? other than that it looks like we'll get snow tonight in time for an old fashion Thanks Giving...with warm regard on this ever so frosty morning, Nicole

Name: curious is as curious does
E-mail Address: focus the attention on the attention
Date: 26 Nov 2002

Comments

Eileen, thanks for the response. I am going to follow Peter's advice and read The Peoples History of America (Howard Zinn) and Manufacturing Consent (Noam Chomsky). That should give us at least a starting place, in which we will have a common Frame of Reference. An old dog can learn new tricks, I hope.....T

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address:
Date: 25 Nov 2002

Comments

Hey T~

I will not take issue with your thoughts concerning Steve. We all have our own, and you a entitled to yours. It is a mean willed intention I have addressed here.

Well you've done something I always thought would be interesting but never could get my mind around well enough to do it. Taking on different characters (thoughts) and using different names for them. I have no problem with that unless it is being used simply to hide behind..which I didn't think was going on with you. It occured to me early on with my computer use on other boards, that it would be a great experiment of how the "person" we project is reflected back in others reponses. I actually found when this was all new to me, it was hard enough to project myself in a way I felt was true to myself. I take it as a great excersize in communication. I now take a fair amount of thought before and while I post to really say what I mean and have it come accross as intended. I have different lines of thought and interests, but I have chosen to claim them so there is no uncertainy as to who's posting. I have come here the share ME, and I claim it all. I have come to not only add my two cents about my own take on our shared past, and to also do catch up with some of those I have lost contact with. As well as pick up the political climate here and maybe learn something.

There is a site that has been very active for a number of yrs, and can get interesting at times in a number of areas. Although it is an earthquake site, it covers a pretty wide range of topics. The political pages some of you might find interesting, when they are not flaming each other over nonsense (see, it does happen elsewhere and as stupidly). There are some good and varied minds there (and some clueless), and I think is a good finger to the wind of a cross section of attitudes and thought politically. I usually look to see what the lastest Dona has come up with. This girl is ON IT. Here you go:

http://www.syzygyjob.net/

Name: Joe
E-mail Address: Hey Joe
Date: 25 Nov 2002

Comments

Damn I did it again. Thats me arrogant. Been in New York City too long myself huh travis ....then again I was born here.....you seem to have your underwear tied in a knot...you are quite full of yourself....I just have trouble seeing any content.

Name: Joe
E-mail Address: Hey Joe
Date: 25 Nov 2002

Comments

Name: IMAM
E-mail Address:
Date: 25 Nov 2002

Comments

Hey Curious - Well, have you got it worked out now? Can we get on with things mysterious or do you still have issues to go on about? You are quite well spoken - but now what? Got anything "non-Steve" related to add or detract in the mean time? - No offence intended - afterall - I don't have much to say these days - except perhaps that under Bush educational statistics will go up only because there is less to learn......IAMIMAM

Name: Hammond
E-mail Address:
Date: 25 Nov 2002

Comments

Eileen and Nicole - I haven't heard from Steve since his bail-out note - sent him an e-mail but no reply which is unusual - but then he may be south-bound on a OMMC flight pattern. In any event I hope someone goes by to check on him....... Thanks.

Name: curious is as curious does
E-mail Address: in the land of plausibility
Date: 25 Nov 2002

Comments

I am unconvinced of Steve's predicament. It sounds too much like "crying wolf" to me. It also smacks of being perfectly willing to dish it out;but, being unwilling or unable to take it. In any case I should think there were many ways to address real levels of threat, either expressly stated or implied. Now I'm not saying that I think Steve disingenuos. But he has certainly bordered on it at times. I am otherwise not involved in this at all--in any way, directly or indirectly, other than as an observer. And 'bye the way--You may all, collectively or individually, go jump in the fuckin' lake, when it comes to questioning the reasons why I choose to use different "names" as my stalking horses. Since Benjamin Franklin, writing as "Poor Richard" to Samuel Clemens, writing as Mark Twain, the tradition of developing a persona within his literary style, is well established for an author, any author( and when you literally or figuratively put pen to paper, that is what you become-an author). It was thus before the Constitution and, happily, remains so--I should have thought you would all have learned that in elementary school. There are a few things that have not become apparent to you, for instance, that Beetle Bailey addresses you only in connection with military concerns. Amonttillado has addressed you to join him in spiritual pursuits; but, at the same time reminding you of Poe's first line, if memory serves, " A thousand and one misfortunes had I born of Fortunato," which is how I felt every time I tried to approach riposte and repartee, with Steve Boyd, all of which was designed to qualify him as both sharp and reliable, toward the resolution of a unique problem, which is a private matter, and not available to you in public. However, his sharpness was of tooth, and his reliability called, only in regard of the matter of which I speak and not as a general case, into some question. I will say that he has maintained the discretion that I had hoped for--no small thing in and of itself. Nobody understood because they were not intended to understand, goddamit. Steve was boastful and resentful; but, when I was finally able to resolve the mystery with him, by private resource, he understood why the whole thing had been necessary. Not, that it was of necessity for him;rather, it was of necessity for me. Steve has taken credit for stimulating a great deal more than is his due. He has put words into my mouth, and that borders on real insult. He has lived in NYC to damn long, for my money. When I spoke to Eileen, here, he took protective umbrage with my remarks, and a new round of hostilities began--most of which I just didn't participate in. You know, fuck with Eileen, Fuck with Coyote, fuck with anyone or anything that Steve Boyd didn't like and he blew his top. I really don't give a shit what you think about my attitudes, or at least what you mistakenly think are my attitudes, especially, because I can't control what you think or how you feel. In almost every case in my entire life, when someone told me to keep it simple, they were actually seeking my compliance.They just wanted me to comply--as a general quality--nothing particularly specific--just comply. When some one tells me to keep the language simple, what they are saying is invariably that I should come to some operable conclusions about the lack of intelligence or education of the part of the audience( only audience in the sense that this kind of communication doesn't achieve the intimacy of a two party conversation). What fucking arrogance! I will never do you the disservice of speaking to you in that manner; unless, you offend. I may take the time to define a term that has a special meaning: example, the time I used Ken Knabb's definition of Bohdisattva. But, the only reason that I do it is as a matter of respect for you, and that I take great pains within my communications to be quite clear. You all take so much on faith, why can you not take me on faith when needed? Eileen has been one among you willing to dig herself, as have Eric and Mark Hebard--Mark especially has extended faith in that direction-and it is much appreciated. Simon is still a wolf in sheep's clothing, but you will probably have to find that out for yourselves--on that note if you have not read Nietzche's Will To Power you cannot know what I find wrong with Simon, and frankly, he can only operate within the sphere of your ignorance; he depends upon it....................Travis Motherfucker

Name: Nicole
E-mail Address:
Date: 25 Nov 2002

Comments

Eileen, I'm going at 5 pm after work...but I'll call the church right now and ask at the office to make sure he's ok...Nik

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address: samileen@mcn.org
Date: 25 Nov 2002

Comments

I can't raise Steve via email. I hope someone that can see Steve, will go track him down. Please email me and let me know how he is doing.

Name: Iron Riders Anonymous
E-mail Address: The Open Road
Date: 25 Nov 2002

Comments

Down with the virual Angry Brigades! Up with honesty of expression - and that is what courageously Steve provides - however blunt or innacurate at times. It really doesn't matter if you agree with him - agreement is not the point - just ask Sprog or some of these other virual instigators who have nothing better to do with their down time except bugging Steve - a pure heart willing to put his thoughts and actions out on the white lines of the hightway - stirring the pot of dialogue so to speak. But stirring with valid thought vs. inane threats and stupidity. Who ever you are - I suggest you stop it while the stopping remains sane vs. the unmentionable wrath of others who live near by...... Take heed.

Name: Michael
E-mail Address:
Date: 25 Nov 2002

Comments

Steve,

I want to add my voice to those who are calling you back. You brought life to these pages. I'm sorry to read that you have been threatened by idiots. I hope you are able to get past that shit and find your voice again.

Michael

Name: Nicole
E-mail Address:
Date: 25 Nov 2002

Comments

Good morning ...I was away for the week-end and I didn't go by and see you Steve...I will be over today...and thank you Eileen for your words on that matter...how frustrating it must be for our Steve...and yes that was my brother...he's currently back living in Starlight, Pennsylvania...Peter and his son Nick saw him awhile back....they went on a fishing trip with him in summer on the north Platt river in Wyoming...he and my sister Judy from Chicago came to see me the week after 9/11...concerned because I live downtown near ground zero...that was such a treat...

There are some serious issues on my mind today, but I can't quite bring myself to broach them yet...speak later, Nicole

Name: Tomas
E-mail Address: tomas@laurelrose.com
Date: 25 Nov 2002

Comments

Tomas was put under the same eye as Steve but it was on the Morningstar Most newsletter. People were saying why is he writing this stuff here. Some said write it elsewhere. Some said Morningstar is free, let him write here. So Tomas does write to the Morningingstar newsletter as he pleases. But Tomas also pays for a site all his own where Tomas can muse all he wants. So Steve do as you please, Tomas does not mind. Buy your own space and invite Tomas over for a chat. I am not into chat rooms. I cannot spell without a spellchecker. When a man opens his mouth he has something to say or he is hungry. We as a commnunity can listen or feed em.

Name: Joe
E-mail Address: Hey Joe
Date: 24 Nov 2002

Comments

Steve is getting threats via email. What cowards! I cant say its unbelievable. Nothing is unbelievable anymore after the last year or so. Actually its very predictable. Eye to eye they would say nothing. Behind the keyboard they are invincible. Ive found in life that those that threaten do nothing. You gotta watch the quiet ones. Well Steve I hope you keep talking. You got me laughing quite a few times during a continuing dark period. Dont let these stunads rattle your cage.

Name: Eric
E-mail Address:
Date: 24 Nov 2002

Comments

I guess I should say again that Steve is welcome here. I may not agree with his opinions and wince at times at his blunt expressions but his contributions to the discussions have been appreciated by many of us. I consider this site to be an extension of my living room in some ways. As long as a person is trying to communicate, that person is welcome. Even "Sponge" would be welcome if he or she was contributing to the conversation. But just sending blather for the sake of seeing one's name in "electrons" doesn't cut the muster. I've never felt that about Steve. The stuff of Steve's that gets people upset is his raw anger. But who cannot feel anger at the world today. Reading Steve's messages makes me aware of my own raw feelings. I only hope sincerely that he isn't turned off by the reactions that he's gotten. I hope he has thick skin as well as homeskin.

Name: Mark Hebard
E-mail Address:
Date: 24 Nov 2002

Comments

To all,

Eileen has put it on the table. I for one see beauty and dignity walk through the open field of Steve Boyd's words. We should all have the courage to speak so clearly exposing all that we have to hide and to share. If you, who attack with a particular agenda, can't deal with the full spread of an individuals reality, it is your loss. Please amble your sorry ass off to oblivion.

Name: Hammond
E-mail Address: in defense of Steve - ditto
Date: 24 Nov 2002

Comments

"Each One Teach One" - and thank you Eileen for saying this for the rest of the 'freely framed' - H.

Name: Hammond
E-mail Address: in defense of Steve - ditto
Date: 24 Nov 2002

Comments

"Each One Teach One" - and thank you Eileen for say this for the rest of the 'freely framed' - H.

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address: in defence of Steve Boyd
Date: 24 Nov 2002

Comments

HI All..?

It is perhaps due to the wkend and folks having a good one, that I get to be all but the Lone Ranger here..but I would like to say something (take the risk) about Steve that has been on my mind for the last few days. Along with "faceless" in Steve's case, voiceless. Imagine for a moment, having no flow of communication avaiable other than the computer you sit in front of. The rest left to facial and hand gestures and hand written notes.

With that said, I have taken his out/rages of "freedom of speech" here with a grain of salt. He "speaks" things here, that we save for private conversations. But where does he get to blow off steam, if not here, where he naively assumed comradship of anyone inclined to visit this site? I see there is much more to him and in him, than those moments of political/social "incorrectness". Do we not all have them, or are we all pure of mind and heart? There are those that have taken offence, by not taking in the whole. They have taken to pretty much stalking him via email, and even on this site at times. It has become malicious and cooly threatening. You know who you are. I would ask that you look at for the track you have taken and realize the harm you are doing to a person I value here, that has not hidden his vulnerability and humanness behind "facelessness". That has used this as a safe harbor to express what can not be spoken and released in the way you have avaiable any time you choose to anyone you choose.

Again, I have seen this personally directed maliciousness on other sites. The site master finally had to track down their ID's (yes it can be done) and entirely shut down their avenue into the site. But I am appealing to you, to let this site (and our email) be a safe harbor for all of us, and not just a place to express your malcontent in such an intended hurtful manner.

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address:
Date: 24 Nov 2002

Comments

Thanks Eric. Having been active on other boards, have seen there are folks that take advantage of the "facelessness" that is afforeded, to say anything, no matter how offensive. I have seen boards all but ruined by the site master not taking a hand in content. Thank you for paying attention.

Name: Eric
E-mail Address:
Date: 24 Nov 2002

Comments

Sponge -- you've been asked before by others and myself. Take your misogynistic and sexist drivel elsewhere. It's not appreciated here.

Name: Dr Sponge
E-mail Address:
Date: 24 Nov 2002

Comments

Eric you hypocritical piece of shit . you edit what is convenient and allow through the same. censorship is your veicle . drive careful you may overstep the mark . Keep up with the popular accord of opinion its safer that way. live by the sword die by the minions . you fucking two faced "oooh look at me " plebian . i have to face the devil you ,unfortunatly will be judged by your peers. live long and prosper

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address:
Date: 23 Nov 2002

Comments

Hey! Is this Nicole's little brother?!

Name: Bobby Wills
E-mail Address: eastwestoutfit1@cs.com
Date: 23 Nov 2002

Comments

Good web site. Fun to see the names of old frends from years ago.

Name: Amber
E-mail Address:
Date: 23 Nov 2002

Comments

I would just like to say first that i think all of you are wonderful and mysterious and so interesting. I may seem like a dreamer but ive been reading around and im definately moved,and the photographs were amazing. I would love to hear some stories, advice, or any little thought that comes to your mind. Since i can remember, the only place ive ever wanted to go was California. It's like a mass of excitement and passion and adrenaline is pulling iside me and stirring about. I want to start off across the country and explore the depths of the truest culture ever born in america. "Do you know the warm progress under the stars? Do you know we exist? Have you forgotten the keys to the Kingdom. Have you been born yet& are you alive? Let's reinvent the gods, all the myths of the ages. Celebrate symbols from deep elder forests. [Have you forgotten the lessons of the ancient war]We need great golden copulations. The fathers are cackling in trees of the forest. Our mother is dead in the sea. Do you know we are being led to slaughters by placid admirals & that fat slow generals are getting obscene on young blood. Do you know we are ruled by T.V.the moon is a dry blood beast." - James Douglas Morrisson I'd like to hear from you and have some really good conversation. Amber

Name: curious is as curious does
E-mail Address: foggy  bottom
Date: 23 Nov 2002

Comments

Er, make that felicitous...........T...and plus--some body, at some point asked about Bubba, from Whitethorn...I hadn't heard his name in over thirty years, and have nothing new to add, except to say that he was recuperating from the worst jaundice that I ever saw, while staying with Art and Ruby, in the city(SF) this while Barry Motherfucker was still alive--ye gods I would have loved to have seen he and Vinnie square off on pianos...and while I'm there, the last song I remember Vinnie playing, was "The Promised Land"--I think at the Red House...bye for now.........T

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address:
Date: 23 Nov 2002

Comments

T~

On my way to Native Am tepee meeting..but checking in here quickly. I'll probably be gone a few days. Looks like you and me here. When I read this there is a feeling of such innocence/openness of concideration here. An internal dialog that we must all have had to some degee at one time or another and hopefully still do. I wonder how much more he would have to ponder if in the the late 50's all the truely spiritual material and teachings we have avaiable to us today. One must take into account the time period. I wonder what YOU find in this? He is considering such basic questions. He is really digging at the bones of what it is to be human. In those days physics had not come to acknowledge the implications of spiritual aspects as worth consideration, as they have found, as they have dug deeper and deeper. In my own spiritual studies from so many yrs back, I was waiting for the big Ah HA as the physisists (I can't spell that one) laboriously picked apart the workings of the universe. But he goes futher and is questioning the MIND, of humanity. The ancient Chinese and Indian (India) teachings had already spelled it ALL out in extreme detail. And there are those like myself that must laugh as they go, hey, wow, look what we just figured out! They are really reinventing the wheel in this regard. But it seems we all must.

Name: curious is as curious does
E-mail Address: The Great Dismal Swamp
Date: 23 Nov 2002

Comments

While I do not, as a matter of principle, believe in evil I had previously dedicated myself to finishing this piece for your collective consideration: Richard P. Feynman, Nobel Laureate in Physics, a partial excerpt from Frontiers of Science, 1958 : Education, For Good and Evil---.......Once some thought that the possibilities people had were not developed because most of those people were ignorant. With education universal, could all men be Voltaires? Bad can be taught at least as efficiently as good.Education is a strong force, but for either good or evil. (para) Communications between nations must promote understanding: so went another dream. But the machines of communication can be channeled or choked. What is communicated can be truth or lie. Communication is a strong force also, but for either good or bad. (para) The applied sciences should free men of material problems at least. Medicine controls diseases. And the record here seems all to the good. Yet there are men patiently working to create great plauges and poisons. They are to be used in warfare tomorrow. (para) Nearly everybody dislikes war. Our dream today is peace. In peace, man can develop best the enormous possibilities he seems to have. But maybe future men will find that peace, too, can be good and bad. Perhaps peaceful men will drink out of boredom. Then perhaps drink will become the great problem which seems to keep man from getting all he thnks he should out of his abilities. (para) Clearly, peace is a great force, as is sobriety, as are material power, communication, education, honesty and the ideals of many dreamers. (para) We have more of these forces to control than did the ancients. And maybe we are doing a little better than most of them could do. But what we ought to be able to do seems gigantic compared with our confused accomplishments. (para) Why is this? Why can't we conquer ourselves? (para) Because we find that even great forces and abilities do not seem to carry with them clear instructions on how to use them. As an example, the great accumulation of undertanding as to how the physical world behaves only convinces one that this behavior seems to have a kind of meaninglessness.The sciences do not directly teach good and bad. (paara) Through all ages men have tried to fathom the meaning of life. They have realized that if some direction or meaning could be given to our actions, great human forces would be unleashed. So, very many answers must have been given to the meaning of it all. But they have been of all different sorts, and the proponent of one answer have looked with horror at the actions of the believers in another. Horror, because from a disagreeing point of view all the great potentialities of the race were being channeled into a false and confining blind alley. In fact, it is from the history of the enormous monstrosities created by false belief that philosophers have realized the apparently infinite and wonderous capacities of human beings. The dream is to find the open channel. (para) What, then, is the meaning of it all? What can we say to dispel the mystery of existence? (para) If we take everything into account, not only what the ancients knew, but all of what we know today that they didn't know, then I think that we must frankly admit that We Do Not Know. (para) But, in admitting this, we have probably found the open channel. (para) This is not a new idea; this is the idea of the age of reason. This is the philosophy that guided the men who made the democracy that we live under. The idea that no one really knew how to run a government led to the idea that we should arrange a system by which new ideas could be developed, tried out, tossed out, more new ideas brought in, a trial and error system.This method was a result of the fact that science was already showing itself to be a successful venture at the end of the 18th century. Even then it was clear to socially-minded people that the openness of the possibilities was an opportunity, and that doubt and discussion were essential to progress into the unknown. (conclusion--[my words-& depending on your humor the most felficitous word (conclusion) in the language] Our Responsibility As Scientists We are at the very beginning of time for the human race. It is not unreasonable that we grapple with problems. There are tens of thousands of years in the future. Our responsibility is to do what we can, learn what we can, improve the solutions and pass them on. It is our responsibility to leave the men of the future a free hand. In the impetuous youth of humanity, we can make grave errors that can stunt our growth for a long time. This we will do if we say we have the answers now, so young and ignorant; if we suppress all discussion, all criticism, saying. "This is it, boys, man is saved!" and thus doom man for a long time to the chains of authority, confined to the limits of our present imagination. It has been done so many times before. (para) It is our responsibility as scientists, knowing the great progress and great value of a satisfactory philosophy of ignorance, the great progress that is the fruit of freedom of thought, to proclaim the value of this freedom, to teach how doubt is not to be feared but welcomed and discussed, and to demand this freedom as our duty to all coming generations.***************I'll discuss this later, I trust y'all know how difficult it is for me to type.........I just need to rest a bit............Regards...............T

Name: Dr Sponge
E-mail Address:
Date: 23 Nov 2002

Comments

Mungo, great name . I dont know what your talking about but you could try asking steve direct. His email is no secret its posted on this page enough times. Where did you get my address from i would like too know . its no secret but to my knowledge its not been posted here or anywhere else.

Name: SILENT STEVE
E-mail Address: silentsteveboyd @hotmail.com
Date: 23 Nov 2002

Comments

OPEN LETTER TO PLANET DRUM AND HAMMOND: Got fucked where I breath. Must save my own ass before saving the planet. Pulling the welcome mat. Contact you all from the underground. P.S. I should have made my words short and sweet. (because now I'm eating them.) Dont let the "Bastards" of this world get you down. Over and out.

Name: You Know
E-mail Address: You Know That Also
Date: 23 Nov 2002

Comments

AUGUST 5TH. "HAPPY BIRTHDAY BECKY!!!" You "Famous"???...not In my book. P.S. See Ya' In Church.

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address:
Date: 22 Nov 2002

Comments

quickmorph~

I seem to be the one that has time for this page this morning..I don't mean to be Miss Know It All here and know others will pitch in later. Good for you, you are still questioning what is real and what is a cultural game. So am I at 59. It's important to always question. We can miss a lot, if we're not paying attention. True we have to settle within ourselves what our life track is at some point.our point of view..the window we look out of. As stated earlier, NO cultural rules, leaves for a ship with no moorings.

Personally I've had to come to terms with being "different"..even in Ca. Ha! I remain outspoken, so have just gotten better at it. I question a lot when I don't understand something clearly or don't like what is going on. My kids still cringe at times with me in public. I'm not afraid to appear dumb. I hold we are all, just people, and start from there. People still respect "authority" and those that move and speak with authority are very good at sliding stuff by..be it a teacher, public figure, etc..or cultural mores.

To take it to another notch..The police are trained to intimdate for instance. They can't do it eye ball to eye ball if you're not going for it. "Authority" is so, only if you're going for it. There's a simple trick I learned about the STANCE of authority when guarding back stage doors at music festivals, from folks trying to get in, that I see applied in many other situations by people trying to claim authority for their ideas and their presence. ACT like you belong there and know what you are doing and MOVE WITH NO HESITATION. If you can slow those folks down with questions, often you already know the answer to, you can rearrange the situation that demands equal footing and revealing answers. It was quite often a tact employed in Digger action. "Question Authority" has never been more important.

I know I have swerved off course of your post here. But this is where your thought has taken me.

Name: Tomas
E-mail Address: tomas@laurelrose.com
Date: 22 Nov 2002

Comments

There is a door that opens, there is an influence. Once the door is open there is no turning back. What we saw may have been an illusion. But I think it is bigger than that. There was a movement of mind for the better. The movement continues today and will grow, as the world understands the influence. The world that I see is big and well lighted.

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address:
Date: 22 Nov 2002

Comments

Joe~

Your remark kept floating by last night. I wanted to also add a perspective that may be forgotten as we speak in the present time, of Ronnie's concern of our leaving the battle front (but not the battle). It is easy to forget we were all (mostly) in our 20's, in the 60's. When I say "all" I am saying we were addressing our own age group, our peers..we were all in the same boat. Mark explains the intention exactly. If we did our job well, we were not required, after the message was given and the example shown ie lived out. We failed if folks were left asking, what do we do next. Also I want to point out, that the on rush to SF of thousands of kids, was instigated largely by the media..it was a hot story that went all over the US like an flash to young people to come party. We were well aware early on, an artificial or temporary, by necessity, situation of "Height Ashbury" had been created. There was a concern of the needy situation that was taking place would turn into a disaster for many..kids did not come prepared to take care of themselves. Often with little money, no place to go, and little on their back to sustain them but a dream of something better or an escape. There was a song that became popular at that time, that irritated Coyote no end, Come to SF..it talked about sun and wearing flowers in your hair, like some dream land broscure sp?. It was not sunny and warm and it was not easy..it was cold, foggy SF and it was city streets, suddenly teeming with kids with no where to go, having no idea what they were getting into. We didn't want to be seen as the Salvation Army and we were in no position to take an on going responsibility for anyone. We weren't trying to create an easy nest, a safe place no one wanted to leave, but picked up a responsibility the city turned it's eyes from and used the opportunity to fuel imiginations with something more than an acid dream. I don't think we can be faulted for that.

At some point we had to say, the party's over folks..that was the point, at least in my eyes, of Death of Hippie..it was a way to tell the media, stop sending these kids here! I think it was a brilliant move and took a while to figure out how to let folks know we had all gone as far as we could go. We didn't create the situation on the Height, but we ended it. At least we gave them fair warning we were pulling up stakes and moving our tents. The party was over and time to take what had been learned, home.

Name: quickmorph
E-mail Address:
Date: 22 Nov 2002

Comments

The Digger influsnce was fundamental for so many (thousands? millions?). As a suburban Connecticut 16 year-old in 1968 the prospect of throwing out (or a least throwing into doubt) all of the cultural rules/roles was both exhilarating and confusing (as if being 16 wasn't bad enough!) Thank god for that though...because at 50 I'm still struggling with what's "true" and what's a cultural game. And the Diggers helped to build the crucial launching-pad for a lifetime of necessary questions. All they did was demonstrate that the world wasn't flat...further navigation was up to those who chose to travel.

Sure I've got hep C and too many dead friends as a legacy of that freedom. But I don't think it's fair to blame liberation for the foolhardiness that can go along with it.

Name:
E-mail Address:
Date: 22 Nov 2002

Comments

Name: IMAM
E-mail Address:
Date: 22 Nov 2002

Comments

"Don't follow leaders" - I repeat this because I heartily believe that "When the People Lead - The Leaders Will Follow" - We are picking up the central thread here.

Name: Ohio girl
E-mail Address:
Date: 22 Nov 2002

Comments

Some thoughts about age: When I turned 50 I thought it was funny, a really good joke because what a miracle that I'm still here after all the awful stuff I did back in my teens and twenties. Too bad I wasn't able to be smart when I was young-looking, but I only got somewhat smarter as I got older so there it is. I'll be 54 in Spring and my husband will turn 50 in a few weeks, he seems OK about it, us old dogs can still learn a few new tricks!

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address:
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

Well Simon, that was depressing...and? How's it go in your neighborhood? I heard on the alternative radio news tonight about the high school kids in NY protesting the war in the making. Terrific well thought out, well spoken those teens. Very exciting the kids are DOING SOMETHING! Bettcha it wasn't on the 8 o'clock news.

Name: Simon
E-mail Address: msimon@xta.com
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

They all had their grotesque Taliban tales. "Right there, bodies hanging, rotting, stinking!" said a trader in Chicken Street, the tourist trinket centre. Taliban horror stories poured out of everyone, unstoppable like water from a broken tap: "I was walking with my cousin and her husband outside here," said another man. "The vice and virtue police beat them both with big sticks, beat them to pieces, blood everywhere, because her ankles showed too much under her burka. I stood there, ashamed, but there was nothing I could do. I didn't go out after that." He was a young Pashtun and no friend of this new mainly Tajik government, but he had no doubt that the Americans did the right thing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,838892,00.html?=rss

Name: Mark Hebard
E-mail Address:
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

Joe,

You hit a great point. Davis presents a pivotal moment in the Digger experience. The point is individual responsibility. I remember Bob Dylan being hounded to death as a prophet, expected to script out the "next steps" as if it was choregraphed and only needed to be instructed. Lenore Kandel draws the focus very clearly in the Digger film. Planting the seed of change was an extraordinary accomplishment, but the core of the Digger offering was the question " Okay, we have created a fresh canvas here folks, the door is open, whaddya wanna do with it?" To take the arrogant position of "dictating" the moves of the culture goes against the Digger effort and begins the destructive cycle all over again. I have to say that Ronnie Davis raising his hand and declaring "Uh....I got a problem with that." is one of the most profound statements of the counterculture.

Name:
E-mail Address:
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address:
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

Joe~

I think the rebuttal explained quit clearly in follow up to what Ronnie said, what the intention had been. Watch that again and see if it makes more sense to you second time around.

Name: Joe
E-mail Address: Hey Joe
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

After watching the tape, one of the things that struck me was the comments by Ron Davis about once the life acting was over for what the Diggers were saying, what about those they influenced being left high and dry. Its easy to say hey its not my fault Im not a leader, but you can have a profound influence on others. Hopefully not with disastrous results. This is even more so when you are issuing pamphlets to people about how to live in a different way. Being in the life saving business maybe gives me a different perspective on this but I think its on the cold side.

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address:
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

Thanks Joe~But I sure ain't struttin' no stuff these days. As I said, holding it together with safty pins and glue standing waaaay back from the mirror. I had a rather disconcerting moment a few yrs ago. Folks have said Ariel and I look a lot alike..that worked for me until..she and I were stepping out together one night several yrs back, and I stand in my mirror thinking how good I look. Then Ariel steps next to me to check herself out. It was like a flashback and a fast forward..I'm like, HEY STEP BACK, dang!

Name: Joe
E-mail Address: Hey Joe
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

In the tape there is a still of you

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address:
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

Joe~ Huh? Where did you see me?

Name: Joe
E-mail Address: Hey Joe
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

Damn I did that wrong.

Eric thank you for the tape. That is a nice layout you did on the box by the way.

Eileen you were/are quite the looker.

In response to Simon....there is no such thing as competition today which kind of puts a crimp in your capitalist argument. Corporations diversifying into innumerable industries and their propensity to align themselves into industry associations aka cartels makes a mockery of any notion of competition in most areas of commerce. By the way it is only when workers are able to take themselves out of the vicious cycle of competing with each other ( labor unions) that any rise in their standard of living occurs. Even within the United States, people in right to work(for less) states make much less than in those states which dont have right to work laws.

Name: Joe
E-mail Address: Hey Joe
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address:
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

Hi Red~

Perhaps someone else can tell you more. If not I'll get more precise info if it really matters to you. I have a girlfriend that was very tight with him and is still friends with his wife Lisa. I am sorry to say Pete died of cancer quite a few yrs back.

Name: Red
E-mail Address: uathred@angelfire.com
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

Question, what ever happened to Pete Knell a local biker in the Bay ? I'm an old biker/hippies from Northern California and was thinkin about old times.

Name: IMAM
E-mail Address:
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

Eileen - this was a good move - I did much the same not long ago and kept my mouth shut - what's the use.... but just wait - if Bush stupidly opens the Social Security fund for everyone to play Stock Market with the number of elders who somehow support the administration will probably double - until the retired investors start losing their money...... Just rambling in on the page. Hope everyone is well beyond the scipt that at times seems to be writing itself!

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address:
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

Michael~

Thank you for news of the "outside" world. In reality I'm afraid it is we who are on the outside! When I was visiting my folks in Louisiana this summer, I asked my dad what he thought of Bush". I consider my dad a pretty intelligent man and hoped he might (ok I admit it) surprise me with some in depth perspective that was beyond good ole boy thinking. Nope.."I think he's doing a good job." says he, like we need to give the man an award. Well being I'm such a political nimwhit, I just swallowed that bitter pill and dropped the subject. With a minor amount of thinking, I realized my dad has a "system" he spent yrs developing for the stock market and has been making money hand ove fist, no matter what it is doing. I figure as long as that's not disrupted, he's not coming up for air. I didn't even want to hear his reasons for supporting Bush. My lack of intelligent rebuttal would have just dug the dagger deeper making him all the more satisfied in his thinking.

Name: Michael
E-mail Address:
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

A short trip back to the talk of politics and power. Yes, I am very aware how narrowly defined the news is packaged and presented. Here in self referencing, provincial Sioux Falls, even more so. When Bush brought his right wing extravaganza here several times in the last year to pump up locals for his worldview and congressional choices, it was all big flags, muscle, and hero worship. Local TV stations presented "touchdown to take off" coverage as all George all the time hard news. Partisan rallies and political speeches, with little, usually no opportunity for other voices. Lots of awe struck gushing and on air orgasms from news people. The last time this happened was two days before the election - same thing. I called one station and asked the news director what he was doing for other viewpoints. Immediately pissed, he asked, "What do you want me to do?" and slammed the phone. There is no liberal bias in the media here. Pretty much one God and country mind-set and attitude. Green doesn't register here. The Libertarian candidate for Senate quit the race a few weeks before the election and supported the Republican. Somehow, the Democrat, Tim Johnson, pulled out a win by 524 votes statewide. I'm not advocating Democrat politics, it's just the only other choice here and usually they don't do well. By the way, any woman running for statewide office here, of any persuasion, lost this year. It's not all horror stories, but, oh shit, there's a cold, mean breeze. Luckily, I do have friends.

Name: IMAM
E-mail Address:
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

"Up To My Neck In Monks" - great title Steve - When will they do their sand painting? Take photos for us and post if you can....

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address: 
Date: 21 Nov 2002

Comments

That sounds pretty unfriendly. What are your intentions here?

Name: ROLAND
E-mail Address: roncesvalles@navarre.spain
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

SO ENDS THE TALE WHICH SILENT STEVE HATH CONCEIVED.

Name:
E-mail Address:
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

SILENTSTEVEBOYD@HOTMAIL.COM

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address: 
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Steve for some reason I don't have your email address any more. Can you email me?

Name: One for the road
E-mail Address: homeskin@olema.lsd
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Hey Mungo; pissed cause yer' excluded from my site? ...is that it? Its your turn to look for clues. Its spelled out several times via "Miss-Spelling" of the same (as it ever was?) word. Think about it. If you gain entry, then you really rate. See ya' on the Other Side??? "GOOD LUCK?"

Name: Steve
E-mail Address: silentsteveboyd @hotmail.com
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Mungo,...The most exiting August that "WE" ever had??? As I said ALL of mine were exciting! And all of the players that I ran with in 75' are either dead, or worse. And as for remembering Aug. 5th 1975, are you out of your fucking mind? If dropping out now will get you off of my ass, its worth it. Good fuckin' bye. P.S. How would you know if "Donna " was really who she said she was? I can smell a fed. Fuck you. In closing, the kitchen just got to hot. Im' gettin' out. See ya' in the fall if I see ya' at all.

Name: Steve
E-mail Address: silentsteveboyd @hotmail.com
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Mungo, I forgot and left out a touch-down that I made in 75'. Are we talking Boston? Are we talkin' Suzie LeBlanc's muff? (now that was exciting!)

Name: Macuma
E-mail Address: sunshinelane@gulfcoast.fla
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Open letter to Buffalo Jane. If thats you fuckin' with me, cut to the chase or consider yer' self out of the will. A chunk o' change is at stake here, Dig?

Name: Steve
E-mail Address: silentsteveboyd @hotmail.com
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Sorry; up to my neck in Monks. Hey Mom, the trinkets and wompom will be mailed out along with Eric the Animals posters on the first of December. Oh, please update me on the addresses, everything is buried here. Gotta run. (Home work, you know how it is). Hey Mungo, give me a location now! Did we spend that "Exiting August" on the mainland or the Islands? Come on, give me a clue.

Name: Mark
E-mail Address:
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Joe,

You are right on about the wholesale gutting of the Unions. The Demo's laid down on the Homeland Security bill with it's non-union fed employees clause as well as providing money for the G. Bush Sr. Presidential Library. It stinks so bad I can smell it from here. Hopefully the big unions are ready to fight. Teamsters, UAW, etc. This going to get ugly quick.

Keep an eye on the Los Angeles District Attorney's antics in the next months. I have a sinking feeling that the Terror(Red?)Scare tactics are beginning in order to intimidate the "Hollywood Limosine Liberals". Can we remember blacklisting.

Name: Joe
E-mail Address: Hey Joe
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Steve I was at the wrong place.....laughing....no wonder why I didnt see any chicken boxes. I was at the Church on the south side of 4th between Macdougal and who knows what. That is where the old water fountain is outside. Anyway...I'll be sure to say hello next time Im around. Eileen thanks for the compliment. You seem to be a very sweet person.

It didnt take Bush long to attack labor once he got control of congress. First taking away the rights of federal workers and then putting their jobs out to competitive bid. The press and labor unions are always the first to be attacked and silenced by anyone looking for absolute control. Though the press has been silenced since the Gulf War, which they were shut out of. If only I were trust fund baby.

Name: Holely Mother
E-mail Address: Eileen
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Hey Steve~Speaking of sand paintings where's my spiritual shit? I'm holding it all together with safty pins and glue. You still READING that paper?

Name: Mark
E-mail Address:
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Steve,

The protest is happening here also. My daughter participated in a "Day of Silence' at the High School today and my other daughter at UC Santa Cruz informed me of a class walkout this week. I gotta go get the youngest from dance class, be back later.

Name: Steve Cameron Swazey
E-mail Address: Cub Reporter D.W.F.S.N.Y.C.
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Ah..Joe,..Originally I thought that you were refering to an old water fountain inside the church, and there is no "side street" entrance. The Peace Church is located on the north side of the street (W.4th.) between MacDougal St. and 6th.Ave. My digs are in the old front parlor of the Parish House next to the church, (east side). My two front windows are above the Fresh Art Gallery. A poster in the window reads "War Is Not The Answer". The sign on the buzzer reads: ARTIST IN RESIDENCE. You cant miss it. Hey, some robbed Tebetan Monks just walked in. They are throwing some sort of pow-wow in reguards to the upcomming Sand Mandala. I screwed up and missed the last meeting. The NYU Student for a Free Tibet informed me that they all walked out of classes today in an effort to make a statement about their opossition of the upcomming war. Dont check the nightly news for it, as the main-line press has been blind to 99% of the opposition here in NYC. Fuck the New York Times. (oops, sorry about that); I should be more sensitive to the new "INFORMED" format of this web site and should maybe keep my desperado philosophy to myself untill I do my "Home Work"..., but hell, watching this shit, (spell that "DIRTY WORK" come down in my own nieghborhood, (spell that "HOME"). I feel that my "HOME WORK" didnt exactly get eaten by the dog. On that note,...this time its with true conviction, FUCK THE NEW NORK TIMES! I dare say that the Drepung Gomang Monk's Sand Mandala as well as the walk out will be upstaged by Liza's canceled reality TV show. Now thats THEIR NEWS and THEIR REALITY.

Name: Mark
E-mail Address:
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Eileen,

In an effort to give Travis the benefit.... I have reread his posts many times to try to get the tone right. Maybe it's just me projecting my own bias or it is somehow tweaked by the flatness of the written page but it keeps coming out nearly the same each time. I'm not sure he was aiming at Joe's validity either, my comment was a general one.

Travis,... I am working on it. Is this stuff your academic vernacular hovering over the brood or what? Anyway....let's keep at it. Maybe it will sort itself out.

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address: 
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

OK Joe, I see. I read too fast sometimes and miss the overtones. That was a nice little jig you did there, I must say.

Name: Joe
E-mail Address: HeyJoe
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Eileen, The thing about the homework was a joke on my part. A little jibe at the ostentatious. The Kiss acronym is Keep It Simple Stupid. Trying to show your intellectual prowess by using a lot of words that most people dont understand is an exercise in futility in getting the point across. By the way Travis I understand the meanings of the words you use but find myself not really caring after a few lines.

Steve, I was on W. 4 St today. I was working and was gonna stop by and say hello but I had a call and hadda go. Which entrance is it....on W. 4 or the side street that was closed? And the fountain is still there on the corner.

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address:
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Mark~

Yes ofcourse you are right in many ways. Well, it makes my ignorance at least more excusable I suppose. But I am planning to read the books Coyote at least suggested to do some catch up. But it is true I have more time and perhaps interest. But I have a daughter that has a really poor education due to all the traveing and moving we have done in her life and I have to say being truely uninformed about our history just as a country. I don't see this a good thing. But it does not stop her from stepping out to save our Redwoods. Yet it helps to motivate her when she knows the issues behind that. It is also important for her to know how the loggers are caught in the middle..even if they are often obnoxious and generally poorly informed of the larger picture..it cuts down on the us and them mentality and gives some room for badly needed dialog. Yes, tending one's garden is essential. And to be fully informed empowers. But it is like fixing the plumbing or eletricity in a really old house. You fix one thing to find there's a whole line of connection in the process of falling apart. Do you just continue patch and repair as the next problem surfaces or rip out the whole thing and start all over? For a few years I was counting on huge earth changes thoughout the US (in Ca that's not hard to imagine) to just wipe out all the mess we've either made are by default are part of. But I finally gave that up since it's obviously my own brand of wishful thinking and it's not happening this wk and didn't happen on "channeled" timing a few yrs back. We all figure out some time or another "this" is not going to go away if we just wait long enough. (I hate exposing myself this way.) I do know if change is made too quickly, before people really understand it, will not last. The changes that are needed do in fact take tending our gardens. If we can only do that we are effecting a much greater change..and yet there are the Over Lords. What to do about them, that keep us patching the faulty wiring? In Joe's case I do not fault him, but project my own inadequacy to the question at hand, of education as well as effectiveness. I didn't see that T was questioning Joe's validity of purpose. But apparently there is stuff going on here that is flying past me.

In the end, I have a great trust in my own intuition and my finger to the wind, so to speak. I only glance at the headlines and never buy a paper to see what the latest BS is. I have come to rely a lot on the talk on the street and Amy Goodman on Demoracy Now and our local alternative radio stations. I don't know what it is like in much of the rest of the country

Name: Mark
E-mail Address:
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Eileen,

Civil literacy is certainly at the center of many problems we face. The level of civil literacy is controlled in large part from a mostly centralized media outlet and the classrooms in our schools are equally tied to similar agendas. Getting the facts out and listened to is the war that faces us and the enemy is huge. Couple this with the intimidating task of an individual to begin re-educating by examining the history and discussion of existence is overwhelming to all but the most passionate citzens with the free time to spend doing it. There are those who take the time and energy to strike out at the beast but to the person punching the time clock being led on by the "american dream" propaganda, seeking simply to make comfort, safety, and financial "security" the goal is a hard row to hoe. They are in fact "tending there own garden" in my view and are insulted when questioned about the validity of their purpose. Today CNN ran a poll asking " Is driving an SUV a moral issue?"... the last time I checked it was 87% "NO". My fear of heading for the library is brought on by the sucking vortex the seems to swallow up all good intentions. I really think that this can be a trap, recycling bad or irrelevant information with good, choking down true efforts at change at this point. As an artist I know the importance of not letting your past overcome the future of the work. There comes a time when all the work you have done needs to be shit-canned so all the references that cause repetitive work can be removed. This time may be upon us as culture. Social acid. It could be time to create a condition not study the old one. I want to hear that collective flushing sound.

P.S. Was at PD all day yesterday. I got your email. Don't know about hooking up to that list yet. I need to get a little organized.

Name: Eileen
E-mail Address: 
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

T + Joe~

Having a hole in my brain..my short term memory has become worse with menopause and often leaves my family astounded. Such is life..I do not remember my response to you concerning Haiti. My memories of growing up in the South must have been in some ways similiar to your own. I was born in Beaumont, Tex and visited my grandparents there often enough to know something of the Tex mindset..although the Mexican issue did not have a face in that area. It is living near grape growing country in Ca, and making recent trips to S Ca that has driven the Mex issue home, as well as my time in New Mex. Seeing the Mex's (and other S. Am's) stalked by (EPA?) men, like criminals..being humiliated and arrested on the street, pulled out of shopping malls, whole families standing in front of there homes surrounded by men in uniforms..it disturbs me a lot. Knowing they were being swept away as if their lives did not matter. The predudice, arrogance and self rightousness of one culture againt another, that our gov't nourishes with laws and reasoning that I believe that is in no one's best interest but it's own, in the name of commerce..as we go into other countries with our businesses undermining jobs here. This makes no sense to me. It makes me think of the mass slaughter of coyotes when the wool business went belly up due to synthetic cloth..blaming the coyotes for the failing industry.

With this said, I think you are absolutely correct in the need for us to politically educate ourselves and come up to speed if we are to fully partispate in the changes we desire. Joe, it is not a question of taking tests. One does not need to go to school to broaden ones mind and seek out a more full understanding of the issues we face in this country and the world. I think it takes more than saying I don't like this or that. Without knowledge of we are dependant on others to chart a path. This goes against all Digger thought..if you care about that. For me, I just don't like to sit dumb, having opinions about things I know I don't fully understand, letting someone else take the lead..and with the wrong person, running over me with no rebuttal.

I have become concerned enough about the world situation that I can no longer be content not understanding how we got here and what part we play in it. There was a long time, growing up, I did not believe what I was being taught was the full picture..not to mention what WAS being taught was boring, so didn't choose to take any of it in. But we no longer have an excuse for not being informed. We need to look deeper into the causes of where we are today, before we can intelligently address them.

Name: The "Head" Master
E-mail Address: foolsschool@olema.lsd
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Mark,...among the orthodox and liberals alike, the detestation of "Curious'" ideas spread also to his person. That being said; through better understanding, we might all discover much to admire in him. I had to laugh when our Steve spoke of him contemptously as "the great apostle of Mother Fuckdom" in his latest E-Mail..(sorry Steve)..but I also view our "Curiously Cool and complacent" friend as a traitor to Diggerdom. I feel that it was his natural tendancy toward corpulence which set our Steve off at the onset. In short, there has been perpetuated among his many detractors the legend of a Mother Fucker lacking in wrought Iron Soul which characterized the true Digger spirit; a precocious youth who failed to realize his full promise; a Mother Fucker who, having sold out to the straights before the age of thirty, gradually lapsed into a rich, barren, and rather frivolous old age. In closing, Fuck him.

Name: Mark Hebard
E-mail Address:
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

Travis....I don't know, man. Your pretentious and condescending ways really take me to the limit. Can you find it in yourself to put aside that attitude and bring more of your self to the table? You have come to offer your experiences and at the same time seem to be dumping on some of us. I don't get the schzoid manner your using. I for one would like to read what you have to say but it is difficult getting to the core of your posts. Intellectual calisthenics have their purpose but I have to stick to situps. Regarding "wheel reinvention", I am one who is beginning to think that it may be a good place to start. Maybe uninventing the wheel could be a better place.

Mark

Name: Eileen/Sam
E-mail Address: 
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

RE:Phyllis~

I'm sure Phyllis is alive cause no one has told me she's dead. I know that's a bit cold but I loose track of her periodically. Generally she has lived in the Humboldt Country area of N CA. I expect she's still there. Will ask around in a few days. I'll also find out if she does computers and have her check in here herself. Somehow computers doesn't seem her style..but you never know.

Name: Tiziana
E-mail Address: armsalle@hotmail.com
Date: 20 Nov 2002

Comments

The site www.ab-progettazione-sviluppo-software.com is very interested ! congratulations, very nice

Name: long gone
E-mail Address: and remembered
Date: 19 Nov 2002

Comments

Is Digger Phyllis still alive? who has seen her last?

Name: Steve
E-mail Address: sleepingonthefloor@w4th.st
Date: 19 Nov 2002

Comments

Hey Star-Eyed Sella....why the long face? You are lovely and loved. Is that because you are loving and lovable? (I should know these things by now)...Hey, that was a real Easter Egg hunt, but my detective days are over. I've weened myself and have reverted to using both rugs as a pallet which can be stashed in the wakeing hours. My space is still jambed up due to the day care kids in the rear parlor...but the run way is clear for the take-off. All in good time...when ever. After I some-what gut the place, I'm converting the space into a motor cycle assembly-writer-poet-painter-jazz work shop which will rival any in the Beat Hey day of the Village. No curtains naturally.(lets just hope all of the "personalities" dont converge at one time. (talk about fussion!). Thanks for the photo. As always, thinking of you. You look great. P.S. Keep up the fight.

Name: Steve
E-mail Address: straightgoods@nothingbehindthebarrel.com
Date: 19 Nov 2002

Comments

Donna; I would...if for one minute I thought you were who you said that you were. I'm through with this masked ball. I fear the Red Death.

Name: IMAM
E-mail Address:
Date: 19 Nov 2002

Comments

Groan........ Has everyone gotten their changes in yet? The guestbook is fine unless you want a script writer......I'll be back......

Name: curious is as curious does
E-mail Address: Enthralled by your acumen
Date: 19 Nov 2002

Comments

Joe, Be not wise in your own conceits. To no man render evil for evil: provide good things, not only in the sight of God, but also in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as is in you, have peace with all men; not revenging yourselves, my dearly beloved, but give place unto wrath. For it is written: Vengence is mine: I will repay, saith the Lord. But if thine enemy hunger, give him to eat; if he thirst, give him to drink; for doing this, thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head. Be not overcome by evil, but overcome evil by good...................good words from a friend of mine......T

Name: Joe
E-mail Address: Hey Joe
Date: 19 Nov 2002

Comments

Travis- you do wax pedantically on occassion in addition to periods of verbiosity exceeded sporadically by superciliousness. You are familiar with the acronym KISS. By the way I never liked doing my homework.

Name: Donna
E-mail Address: damagedgoodsgirl@yahoo.com
Date: 19 Nov 2002

Comments

Steve, it's good to see you here in the Guestbook. Write me sometime....

Name: curious is as curious does
E-mail Address: Eureka!
Date: 19 Nov 2002

Comments

Dear Eric, my honey(that would be my wife) just helped me, by phone, to move the location of one of the favorites on the tool bar-and everything is again bitchin'. My thanks for your help--I would say, as a diagnostician in other disciplines, that the error probably stemmed from this end ( actually, I'm pretty sure about that, but we don't as yet know the actual dynamics.) Thanks, again.................T

Name: curious is as curious does
E-mail Address: tech support
Date: 19 Nov 2002

Comments

Eric, make that Dear Eric, there are three of us using this Mac--My mathematics and statistics teaching wife, my seventeen-year-old (pushing the limits of Senior privilege) son, and my computer illiterate self. As you might imagine we are so busy that we barely manage to assemble thrice a week, and then for only an hour or two a